In conversation

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Canada Life have been facing into the longevity challenge since 2024. 

 
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We first looked at how longevity impacts conversations, planning and advice to take control at key life stages. 

 
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In 2025, we turned our attention to the changing shape of the workplace. 

 
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Our latest research centres on legacy and later life planning amidst Britain's largest wealth transfer. 

 
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Join us in our conversation as we explore how legacy planning is no longer about what people leave behind. 

 
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It's about how families can use wealth to make a difference at the right time without compromising later life security. 

 
0:51 
It's brilliant to be here chatting about longevity again, and this time through the lens of legacy. 

 
0:59 
You know, what does legacy mean in that context? 

 
1:03 
Part of the research that was really interesting to me was through the lens of legacy, what that means to people. 

 
1:12 
And I think that, you know, the fact that people want to have an impact and they want to leave something, but the nuance around, but I might need it because I am living longer and that gap and that awareness is existing. 

 
1:33 
But I think there's a little bit of paralysis around what to do about it. 

 
1:37 
So I was fascinated about the research around the, the desire I am living longer. 

 
1:41 
I might need my money, but still the, the emotion around wanting to help and wanting to leave something. 

 
1:50 
I think it's really interesting as people are living longer, the money that they're receiving and they're inheriting. 

 
1:55 
I think the research tells us it's age 52 and it's typically going straight into savings. 

 
2:01 
So it's probably past those real big life moments where it can really, really make a difference. 

 
2:07 
And I think that's really interesting and possibly an opportunity for, for more financial planning for advisers to take a role and to help, to help individuals. 

 
2:20 
I mean, I don't know, Tony, if you, you see that well, I, I, I see longevity, not an issue of whether someone survives to 80, 90 or even 100. 

 
2:32 
I see it as an issue of what people actually want to achieve with, with their money. 

 
2:38 
Because the reality is that living longer impacts so many different things. 

 
2:43 
It it impacts the amount of money you need to accumulate for retirement, how you how you actually deal with those assets, what gifts you want to make, whether you need to think about potential care funding. 

 
2:55 
So I don't see longevity necessarily as a planning issue in itself, but the reality is it absolutely impacts every other aspect of financial planning. 

 
3:06 
And for me that's, that's the really interesting thing. 

 
3:09 
Yeah, that's brilliant Tony, because it is kind of triggered something in my mind that almost the conversation about intergenerational planning, intergenerational support has moved from, or it perhaps it should move from, how much to when. 

 
3:30 
And to your point Tony, what for the kind of when and what for are probably now more important than how much so that people do get it when they need it for the purpose that they need it. 

 
3:45 
And I think that intergenerational conversation that has been happening for some time has been happening in a really linear way. 

 
3:55 
The money's going to travel down this line. 

 
3:57 
And it talks about the the path of the money, right? 

 
4:02 
I think what we're seeing from this research is, is the emotion and the desire that comes before the money goes anywhere. 

 
4:13 
Yeah, right. 

 
4:15 
That people want to in your right, they want to leave a legacy. 

 
4:18 
It's a motive. 

 
4:20 
It's, it could be money, it could be, it could be an in-life gift, which is really interesting where it could, especially when you look at the next generation who are struggling to get onto the property ladder, who are struggling to fund university fees or come out with such debt. 

 
4:38 
And there's a generation that want to help and have a real strong desire to help and would like to give an in-life gift possibly. 

 
4:45 
But again, the absolute concern of, but I might need that money. 

 
4:49 
I might need it. 

 
4:50 
So and that really drives a bus through what we stereotypically think about intergenerational wealth planning. 

 
4:57 
I couldn't agree more. 

 
4:59 
You know, as part of this research, we interviewed in depth as well as the big numbers that we're all enjoying. 

 
5:05 
We interviewed in depth a number of people, not just in themselves, but with their family members, multi generational interviews. 

 
5:16 
And we could see that dynamic play out. 

 
5:20 
So we saw, you know, one father, Stephen gifting to his son Clive so that he could do his home extension and his home renovations and a third of that money went to that place. 

 
5:36 
Whereas as you were talking about earlier, if that money goes to the average is 52, but the the tail is long, right? 

 
5:43 
You, I mean, Tony, I can see you nodding. 

 
5:46 
The tail is long. 

 
5:47 
You know, people, it's moving up towards the 60s at the median. 

 
5:52 
So, you know, if they get it, then they put it in savings. 

 
5:55 
But if they get it earlier, Yeah. 

 
5:57 
Like Clive and Steven, you know, Clive can have his home extension when he has a family. 

 
6:03 
Yeah. 

 
6:03 
When, you know, he needs to do a bit more or work from home or whatever it is. 

 
6:07 
Is that what you're seeing in the advice world? 

 
6:10 
Yeah. 

 
6:10 
And I think it's also very slightly dangerous, not very dangerous to actually sort of only think about sort of the money or assets heading in one direction. 

 
6:19 
It it doesn't, it goes both ways, which is sort of gets you to that sandwich generation. 

 
6:24 
But the reality is that, you know, there are, there will be generations where they are supporting their children, You know, they're helping to get on the proper ladder. 

 
6:32 
They're they're trying to pay off their university debts. 

 
6:35 
But at the same time, they've got parents who they're having to help through perhaps care needs. 

 
6:41 
And we also need to, I think to be slightly careful about just talking about money and assets. 

 
6:46 
You know, the, the husband or the wife who has to actually give up or, or cut down the amount of work they're doing and therefore the income they're receiving and their own pension provision in order to, to care for a parent. 

 
6:58 
That's a real cost to the family unit. 

 
7:01 
And I think all those issues need to be brought into this equation. 

 
7:04 
And there's an absolute reality there, Tony. 

 
7:06 
So you're bang on around. 

 
7:09 
We, we see that in action. 

 
7:11 
We see grandparents phasing into retirement and looking after children and and arguably there's a cost involved in that that's being absorbed with that kind of like caring down the way. 

 
7:27 
But there's also a pride for for some of those grandparents that are able to help in that. 

 
7:34 
By default, it will be financial, but it feels like it's it's a giving of time rather than money. 

 
7:39 
Yeah. 

 
7:40 
And, and I thought there was a really interesting bit in your research that that actually almost creates a paradox where it's quite clear that if you can give money earlier on in someone's life, you know, you can make a dramatic difference. 

 
7:56 
You can help them onto the property ladder, You can clear debt that is only going to accumulate and be worse and that has a much greater value. 

 
8:03 
But the paradox is that because most people will realise the cost of care is an unknown quantity and will almost certainly get worse. 

 
8:13 
So the paradox is, you know, giving earlier is the right thing to do and it will help and have the greatest impact, but you also don't know whether you can actually afford to do that. 

 
8:24 
And it's so difficult to quantify that cost of care, like you say. 

 
8:28 
And, and that's a real life example for me. 

 
8:31 
So my, my dad lives in, here we go. 

 
8:36 
I've got a real life case study for you here now. 

 
8:38 
So my dad lives in a warden controlled property. 

 
8:43 
My mum died last year. 

 
8:45 
He is living longer. 

 
8:46 
So he's 80 next year, he's living with cancer and he has a bit of care that calls in, but he's thoughtful because we had to move my mum with dementia into full time care and that cost goes from something very light touch to something very significant quite quickly. 

 
9:08 
And I think, so, 

 
9:10 
I fortunately have power of attorney for my dad and we have a conversation once a month. 

 
9:15 
I mean, we speak more than once a month, but we have our financial conversation once a month. 

 
9:19 
And every time I say, right, Dad, this is the time we're going to talk about the money. 

 
9:23 
He says, do I have enough? 

 
9:25 
And I think that is a backdrop, knowing that he wants me, my sister and his grandchildren, and he'd like to give something. 

 
9:32 
It's that that in action is the essence of what we're seeing in the research, right? 

 
9:36 
Yeah. 

 
9:37 
But your point Tony about it going both ways I think is really strong and this is a question I, I know advisers will recognise, it is client saying how much can I afford to give away. 

 
9:49 
That's an interesting question because I think it's the wrong question. 

 
9:52 
I think what they should, what the advisers should be saying is what you should be looking at is how much can you afford not ever to need again. 

 
10:01 
And that actually leads to a different answer. 

 
10:03 
And it's also leads to the point where it's a family discussion because every element of what's going to be needed going forward needs that involvement of the family. 

 
10:16 
I'd love to hear a bit more about the adviser perspective in what is now a more complex and dynamic familial, you know, situation. 

 
10:28 
The number of blended families. 

 
10:30 
Then I think the number of families with stepchildren at the moment, around 780,000, you know, in the UK, huge numbers of quite complex families. 

 
10:42 
In that context, where is the advice conversation going because it's so important in the face of longevity? 

 
10:50 
Well, I think the first thing is, that quite often people think that when, particularly when you've got blended families, although not, not always, that equal is fair and that, that that's the wrong, again, the wrong starting point. 

 
11:05 
I have one daughter that is, is autistic, you know, and she's, she's actually living on her own. 

 
11:11 
She's got three-part time jobs, but she was never going to be able to afford a mortgage and, and we bought her a house. 

 
11:18 
We're luckily positioned to be able to do that. 

 
11:20 
But I have a son who's, you know, who's working, actually working in the industry and so I almost certainly won't give him the same amount of assets as I will my daughter. 

 
11:29 
So that's not an example necessarily og a blended family, but it is an example of that. 

 
11:35 
equal doesn't have to be the starting point. 

 
11:39 
Families have always been complex, right? 

 
11:42 
So I'm in a blended family, married, divorced, remarried, no biological children, 2 fabulous stepsons who came into my life as young men who live independently now. 

 
11:56 
But you know, there was a university to support in the early stages while my mum was in care and when she needed to go into care, there was a liquidity if you talk about liquidity event. 

 
12:10 
So an immediate need for cash to give you time to think about what the long-term view is. 

 
12:16 
And it's all happening to that squeezed middle, right? 

 
12:20 
That's all happening and I think what's really important is the, you know, the conversations that you can have, the adviser can facilitate with these really complex conversations, you know, so I think about what would my legacy be? 

 
12:37 
And there's something that brings it right front and centre. 

 
12:40 
When you've got ill parents and you've had to support them, then it's like, OK, so 20, 30 years time, that's going to be me. 

 
12:47 
While I have no biological children, I've got stepchildren who I love dearly, but I've also got 4 niece and nephews. 

 
12:54 
And I think about the journey of the money upon my death. 

 
12:59 
So if something happened to me today, I'd want to make sure everything, you know, my husband is well looked after and all that kind of stuff. 

 
13:05 
But then if he then dies, everything that I've accrued will go down his family line. 

 
13:10 
What about my niece and nephews? 

 
13:12 
And then the conversation around parity, what's fair, what's right, which really comes back to we should be having really fluid and open conversations about this. 

 
13:25 
Because only by talking about it over and over again, you get to figure out, well, what do I want to happen? 

 
13:32 
And what are the scenarios that I can think about? 

 
13:35 
And what would I feel comfortable with and where, where would I like this this to end up? 

 
13:41 
And I think there's a socialisation of that that's really helpful. 

 
13:44 
That means that planning can be sure, there's a job to do there, right? 

 
13:48 
It's huge. 

 
13:49 
We see this. 

 
13:49 
So, you know, what we call horizon theory would show us, shows us time and time again and through all of the research on Life100+ that people see their horizon through the lens of their parents. 

 
14:04 
So they, you know, they kind of start thinking about the journey of the money. 

 
14:09 
I love that phrase, the journey of the money, through the life of their parents. 

 
14:13 
But they're doing that at a period in their life where we call it almost the bottom of U curve of life when personally we're going through this emotional psychological change, which me did I always want to be? 

 
14:28 
How do advisers have those complex conversations in that context? 

 
14:33 
Well, I think the starting point is if, if you look at, so we started talking about legacy and I think sometimes legacy is expressed as a noun, how much am I going to leave? 

 
14:44 
Whereas actually, if you expressed it as a verb, what do I want to achieve? 

 
14:49 
And in that context, sort of the timing of a gift or legacy is just as much important as the amount itself that starts the conversations, I think. 

 
15:00 
What did you want to achieve? 

 
15:02 
Why do you want to make a gift? 

 
15:05 
And again, your research talked about the fact that sort of a lot of advisers think this is a tax conversation, whereas most clients, the vast majority didn't think it was. 

 
15:15 
The very first question is why do you want to do this? 

 
15:17 
Because that will drive actually what planning is required and who needs to be involved in those conversations. 

 
15:23 
You know, one of the things that, I'm taking my dad back to Grenada for next year for his 80th birthday. 

 
15:31 
That seems like a bit of a legacy, right? 

 
15:33 
I want us to spend some time together, you know? 

 
15:37 
And yeah, it's the cost of a flight, but no one thinks about that as a gift, do they? 

 
15:42 
It's, but that's really important and I think the real understanding of what legacy means and how if he goes or I goes, how you can feel about some of the things that you did is, is hugely important. 

 
15:54 
It's moments of joy, moments of purpose, you know, kind of moments of practicality. 

 
16:01 
It kind of that comes back to the earlier conversation, doesn't it, about the difference between being aware of something and internalising it and owning it. 

 
16:10 
And we saw it in the survey results that a longer life means potentially working longer. 

 
16:18 
It means getting yourself organised for care. 

 
16:21 
It means having professional or more formal conversations, whether that's an adviser or the bank or whoever it might be. 

 
16:30 
It means all of those things. 

 
16:31 
It means getting your health into order. 

 
16:34 
But people stop themselves from doing this because they're worried about how they're going to feel when they come face to face with it. 

 
16:44 
But so how do we resolve that? 

 
16:46 
Awareness is not the same as making a decision. 

 
16:48 
No. 

 
16:48 
I mean, if it is, great, we could just educate everyone and they could get on and make it. 

 
16:52 
But the reality is they don't. 

 
16:54 
And that's where the advisers can actually have real value. 

 
16:57 
Different things become important at different times. 

 
17:01 
You know, while you're working, how you think about your future is different to when you start thinking about retiring and then you actually transition into retirement, whatever that looks like. 

 
17:12 
Whether it's, you know, 65, I'm never going back to work again, or if it's going down to two days a week and transitioning into a different kind of career. 

 
17:20 
And therefore you're leaving a legacy you're funding for later life. 

 
17:24 
It just continues to shift, which then goes back to what you would always say Tony. 

 
17:28 
That's why financial planning is dynamic, you know, and that's why you don't have to make all of your gifts at the same time, because different things become important at, at different stages in your life. 

 
17:39 
And therefore you can, you can eat the elephant one bite at a time, you know, and, and take it piece by piece by piece. 

 
17:47 
10 years ago a lot of estate planning was very much centred around actually leaving assets at death and then maybe some IHT planning around death. 

 
18:00 
Remembering only sort of 3% of the state paid IHT 10 years ago. 

 
18:04 
Obviously that number is much larger now. 

 
18:07 
Whereas actually now many, many more people are actually saying no, no, I want to leave something while I'm alive. 

 
18:14 
I want to see my children, my grandchildren benefiting from these assets. 

 
18:19 
And that fundamentally changes the way that you approach things. 

 
18:24 
But it does also remind us that you still got this, as I said before, paradox between can I afford to give this way, never to have it again? 

 
18:33 
Because that's fundamentally the way IHT works. 

 
18:35 
And that that's again, a very difficult conversation, but a conversation that clients need advisers to have with them. 

 
18:43 
And advisers are very well suited to be able to deliver. 

 
18:47 
And you talk about the map of life and you know, at one point you would think about retirement as cruises, holidays, tennis, afternoon tea and this luxurious way to live. 

 
19:00 
And, and possibly it is that for some people for a longer period of time. 

 
19:04 
But there is a reality that that comes to an end. 

 
19:07 
And then there's a reality of, OK, I'm not going to be taking that long haul flight because my mobility, or I don't need it. 

 
19:14 
And then it's European and then it's less travel and then I'm probably not going to use my passport again. 

 
19:19 
And, but that is a reality and, and I think people can think about that reality now through the lens of parents, grandparents, and what that means to me. 

 
19:29 
It's dynamic. 

 
19:30 
The planning needs to be dynamic. 

 
19:31 
The way we think about longevity is dynamic and it's componentised to your point around the industry is not one single thing. 

 
19:40 
But again, I do say that, you know, that there is something for everyone in this research and, and collectively, if we all play our part, we should be generating better outcomes for consumers. 

 
19:57 
But it's a brilliant place to conclude that piece, you know, a better outcomes for everyone. 

 
20:04 
You know, legacy is a very personal picture, isn't it? 

 
20:09 
It's a very personal story, yeah. 

 
20:12 
No, it should be oversimplistic, but for me, legacy isn't just about what you leave behind. 

 
20:18 
For me, a legacy is what you want your money to achieve for you and your family while you're alive. 

 
20:26 
Straightforward as that. 

 
20:29 
And I think for me, legacy's a bit different as well. 

 
20:31 
It's less about, it feels a bit nontangible. 

 
20:35 
It doesn't feel monetary. 

 
20:37 
So if I think about my mum taught me to cook and I think her legacy is, sounds silly, but jerk chicken, rice and peas that I can cook, that's something that she's given to me, you know, I also think about the time that she spent with me teaching me to read. 

 
20:59 
So something around time and an investment and how people will remember you and it could be by what you gave them financially or it could just be the time that you spent with them. 

 
21:09 
We talked about grandparents looking after their children. 

 
21:14 
That's time, it has a monetary impact, but it feels like you give your time. 

 
21:19 
So it feels for me, maybe not always financial in pounds and pence, but just that kind of like passing on a traditions and passing on of experience as well. 

 
21:31 
I love that and I so want that recipe.